Wrong leadership, Nigeria’s greatest problem - Atiku
Atiku Abubakar
We will like to know in specific terms how many jobs you plan to create within the first six months, if you are elected president.
My policy document was prepared by my own study group before the issue of consensus candidate came up. When we got through the consensus issue, we set up another committee which comprised the four campaign organisations to review my policy document. By the time the final document is released, we will be in a position to give specific figures on the number of jobs we will be able to create. These are some of the guidelines given to the harmonisation committee; to collapse the policies of the four campaign organisations into one. So, I am afraid at this point, I cannot give specific figures on the number of jobs we will be able to create within the first six months.
But you can see that job creation is a concern to all of us. As far as I am concerned, it is a priority issue. You will acknowledge the fact that we have problems with statistics in this country. We have the problem of getting data. If you go to the labour office, how many people go there to register? They don’t go to register because they know that even if they register, there will not be any job for them. There has to be a change of attitude from government which must trickle down to government agencies; we must have a caring society.
Recently, some PDP governors said they endorsed President Jonathan for the primaries. How do you see this? What are your chances in the primaries? What have the governors told you?
The process and politics leading to this issue of endorsement by governors are well known to all. I have read it in many newspapers and part of it was also related to me. I will like to look at this endorsement from a democratic perspective. We have had endorsements before from the governors of South-South, governors of South-East, governors in the South-West and so on and so forth. I think I will like to concede to the governors the right to endorse whoever they want. The only thing I will argue here is that I will object, if the governors dictate to the delegates to vote for who they do not wish to vote for.
If a governor, as an individual, says he has decided to vote for Jonathan, fine and good. But no governor has any right to take it beyond that because this is a democracy; we must allow the delegates to make their own choice. That is the only way we can have a credible process. Governors must not use their position to intimidate delegates to vote for who they do not wish to vote. My chances are very good because I talk to the delegates one on one. He (Jonathan) believes in using the governors to get the delegates. At the end of the day, we shall see whose strategy is right. But I think he has realised that the governors alone cannot give him the votes, so he now goes from one place to the other, meeting the delegates and giving them money and so on and so forth. What the governors told me is not different from what they told the president. But my concern is that we should have a credible process.
If you are elected president, how do you plan to handle this issue of minimum wage? Do you think that states should pay what the Federal Government pays?
This is one of the things I have always lamented on. Our federation is still being run as if it were a unitary government. This is still the hangover of our military experience. My view is that it is not in tune with true federalism for you to have common wages across the country. When this country had three regions; North, West and East, their salary structures were completely different in tune with true federalism. Today, Akwa Ibom State takes the largest share in revenue allocation. It takes about N29 billion per month. This almost equates what the 19 northern states take in a month. How do you expect any of those northern states to pay the same wage as Akwa Ibom? It is totally against the spirit of federalism.
People have to understand that the various states are not the same when it comes to the issue of revenue or income. Therefore, there is no way the Federal Government can dictate what each state must pay.
Last week, you made a statement which the president described as treasonable. Was it desperation that made you say what you said? Is 2011 a do-or-die for you?
That statement that I made was a quote from somebody. The statement was made over 60 years ago and it has often been quoted. But when I finished quoting that fellow, I also said ‘but that is not the path we want to follow in this country.’ I think the president might have overreacted on whether it was a treasonable statement or not. That is why I said I was prepared to be arrested and taken before the courts to determine whether I made a treasonable statement or not. I think there was an overreaction.
On whether I was desperate about 2011 or not, I have never been desperate about anything. If you follow my career, you will not find any desperation. If I was desperate about being president, I would have been president long before now. If I was desperate, I would not have stepped down for MKO Abiola in 1993. If I was desperate, I would not have given Obasanjo a chance in 1998 because I had the PDP in my hands. If I was desperate, I would have got the ticket in 2003 because everybody wanted me to run. So, I am not desperate. I will wait for the right time, whenever God says the time is right and Nigerians say the time is right, that is when I want to be president.
What am I looking for? I have enough money to eat till I die. This country made me everything I am today; it gave me everything. I went to school free; I was even paid to go to school. Every holiday, we were given transport money to go home and to return to school after the holiday. When I was in the university, I was given family allowance though I did not have a family then. So, what else can I do than to pay back the country that has given me so much. That is why everything I have got I am giving back to the society; nobody is inheriting one kobo from me. I don’t need government money to survive.
Government functionaries consume the lion’s share of our revenue. What will be the attitude of your presidency towards this issue?
Almost 80 per cent of the nation’s income is spent on recurrent expenditure; payment of salaries, allowances etc. I want to reverse that. I want to propose to Nigerians that every money we earn from petroleum resources we should use to improve infrastructure and every money we make from Internally Generated Revenue (IGR), we use for recurrent expenditure. If we do not implement this, we will not develop this great country. We all have to make sacrifices. If 80 per cent of our income is going into recurrent expenditure, there is no way we will catch up with the first world countries. If we embrace this approach, it will improve the revenue we generate internally while also ensuring that our facilities improve. If we open up the country and liberalise everything and allow foreign investors to come, there won’t be much result, unless there is enough commitment on the part of the government.
The proposal sounds like a great plan, but if you win, you won’t be a military president, you will be a civilian president. How do you plan to persuade the legislators who benefit from the current situation to buy into this vision?
We will sit round the table and discuss; we will find a way round it. A fellow politician said I would start a revolution in this country, but I told him I would not. I do not assume that it will be easy, but it is something that can be done. I will ask the legislators whether they want to put their interests first or the national interest.
In the last few months, so much has been said about you being a corrupt politician. Are you corrupt?
We must remember that this corruption perception started in 2000 when I was the vice-president. Of course, it started from the presidency. There was a grand design to put the garb of corruption on me so that I would be ineligible to contest. Then, every government machinery at home and abroad was used to execute this grand design. I made sure that I insulated myself from that. Nobody has been so investigated in office as I was. The president made me chairman of COJA and I discharged the responsibilities of the office faithfully. But the president set up three investigative panels, one after the other, to make sure they hanged something on me. Unfortunately, I knew before hand what he was trying to do; so, I ensured that there was no single contract that he did not approve, no matter how little the amount.
When that failed, he tried using the PTDF and again, it did not work. I was discussing with a highly placed government official from the United States of America (USA) on what was written about me that I am corrupt, I am a thief and all that. The comment from the US authority was uncomplimentary. He said it was unbecoming of a president to write such things about his deputy. In the course of my travels, I have met many heads of states in Africa and outside who have told me that they had heard that I was corrupt, but they did not find such trait in me. What I always tell them is that time will tell. This corruption saga is a deliberate attempt to make sure that I am totally eliminated from the political process in this country because somebody felt I would be a threat or unstoppable. But if I am that corrupt, why is it that up till now, no agency in Nigeria has invited me for questioning?
Well, when I was a vice-president they could say I had immunity, but now that I am no longer in office, why have they not arrested me? It is often said that I cannot go to America because of corruption charges. But we all know that America is not a country where, if you break their law, they will let you go. Americans will pick you up anywhere you go. Yes, America investigated my transactions and I provided all the information that was needed and they never found anywhere where public money went into my business account and they will never do. All they could come up with is ‘suspect fund’. What is the meaning of ‘suspect fund’?
I don’t even have to tell my wife how I make my money. My businesses are international; it is not only in Nigeria that I have business. I have business in Angola; I have business in Gabon; Congo Brazzaville, all over Africa and I have been in this business for the past 27 years and somebody says I cannot live comfortably. If anybody has any evidence they should give it to the authorities so that I could be prosecuted.
I have been a multi-millionaire for a long time. When we were in SDP (Social Democratic Party) and we declared our assets, I was one of the few multi-millionaires.
Year in, year out, we have this issue of unspent funds from Ministries, Departments and Agencies(MDAs). How do you think we can stop this to fast track our development?
The major cause of the unspent fund is that our budgets are never presented at the appropriate time. For instance, this year, the president presented the budget last week and this should have been done about four months ago. The budget is not likely going to be approved until when a new government comes in. By the time the new government comes in, it will come with its own different priorities and the budget will be reviewed. It has always been like that, but I am going to change it, if elected.
I was addressing members of the House of Representatives and I told them that leadership is the greatest problem of this country. I gave them an example. When we came in in 1999, we were elected on the basis of an Electoral Act that was promulgated by the military. We had our own Electoral Act in 2002, just one year before the 2003 elections. There was not enough time to prepare for the elections. For the 2007 elections, the Electoral Act was signed about six months before the elections. For the 2011 elections, the National Assembly is yet to pass the Electoral Act. I asked them whether we were improving or going backward and they said we were going backward. I said it was because of leadership. I told them that if I become the president, I will give them amendments to the Electoral Act two years before an election and I will insist that they pass it. Otherwise, I will report them to Nigerians. So, if budgets are passed early enough, the issue of unspent funds will be eliminated.
If you become president, what will be the first issue that you will tackle?
The first thing I will tackle is power. We talk about unemployment, but I believe that by the time we solve the problem of power generation, that will be reduced. I want to assure you that stable power supply is realisable within two years without a shadow of doubt.
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